290: Shifa Saltagi Safadi’s KAREEM BETWEEN - March 2025 Book Club

How do you find your place when you feel stuck between worlds? In this episode, Jen and Ashley dive into Kareem Between by Shifa Saltagi Safadi, our March 2025 book club pick. This middle-grade novel in verse explores identity, belonging, and tough moral choices as Kareem navigates friendships, football, and family while feeling caught between cultures.

We discuss our overall impressions, the book’s powerful themes, and some of the moments that stuck with us. Plus, we share book pairings that explore similar themes of identity and community.

Let us know what you thought about this one! Remember that you can support us on Patreon if you're interested in contributing to the podcast.

Bookish Check-in

Ashley - Peter S. Beagle’s I’m Afraid You’ve Got Dragons (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Jen - Kristin Cashore’s There Is a Door in This Darkness (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Our Book Club Pick

Shifa Saltagi Safadi’s Kareem Between (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

Our Pairings

• Ashley - Henna Khan’s Amina’s Voice (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

• Jen - Varsha Bajaj’s Count Me In (Bookshop.org | Libro.fm)

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Full Transcript

[00:00:00] Jen: Hi everyone. And welcome to Unabridged. This is episode 290. Today is our March 2025 book club episode. And we are talking about Shifa Saltaji Safadi's Kareem Between. Before we get started, we're going to do our bookish check in. Ashley, what are you reading?

[00:00:51] Ashley: So I just started this one. This is Peter S. Beagle's I'm Afraid You've Got Dragons. And this was a Libro FM ALC pick. The cover and stuff kind of reminds me, Kelly Barnhill's The Girl Who Drank the Moon, which I loved, and just could use a story like that in my life right now.

[00:01:13] And so that's why I started. But really, it is gonna be hard for me to tell you anything about it. It is set in this, as you might guess, fantasy kingdom and they have dragons running around, but they're like small and puny and kind of annoying. So they're kind of like a pest. And at the beginning we meet someone who has an extremely long name, but he prefers to be called Robert.

[00:01:43] And he now has the job that he has inherited from his father who of being a dragon exterminator. Which he absolutely hates, and he does not want to do it, but he's also trying to care for his younger siblings and his mom and so he's trying to navigate that. So we have Robert who is going on, like he's off on his duty to go exterminate some dragons.

[00:02:08] And we also meet the princess of the kingdom, Cerise, who is, at the very beginning, she has been sent to meet all these suitors from all these different places, and she detests everything about that setup and situation. And she runs off to the woods to try to get away from all the pressures and then runs into someone who is coming to be one of the suitors, Crown Prince Reginald.

[00:02:38] And he does not want to be crown prince. He rejects his status in life, but he's still trying to find the castle and do the thing that he's supposed to do for obligation purposes. And he runs into her in the forest, but she does not say who she is. And so he thinks, you know, like, he has no idea that that is the princess.

[00:03:01] And meanwhile, she is like, completely wowed by him. She feels a little weak in her knees. And so, she is like, oh my gosh, he's coming to be one of the suitors. And so she rushes back to the castle and to her parents, the king and the queen, she's like, we have to clean this place up. We gotta get rid of all these dragons.

[00:03:20] This is disgusting. And she's never like that. And so then they're kind of like, what is happening? But they also kind of want to oblige. And that's where I am. So I have no idea, but it's an interesting premise and setup and really great storytelling. And so I'm interested to see what happens.

[00:03:36] And again, it'sit's Peter S. Beagle's, I'm Afraid You've Got Dragons.

[00:03:41] Jen: That sounds delightful. I think I got that one as well because I thought it sounded like so much fun, but I've not listened yet. So yeah,

[00:03:48] Ashley: Yeah, it's fun so far. Yeah, it's got a lovely cover, and I was like, it's a funny title. I don't know, caught my interest. What about you, Jen? What are you reading?

[00:03:56] Jen: I am reading Kristen Cashore's There is a Door in this Darkness. This is a standalone novel. Cashore is one of those authors I just always want to read. I loved her Graceling series, or still love it. It's still in progress even though It's been going on for many years. She'll kind of finish it up and then come back to it.

[00:04:17] This one is quite, quite different. It is more, I would say, magical realism than pure fantasy. It is set in a very real America. The main timeline is during the 2020 election. And the main character, Wilhelmina, is. She basically was traumatized by the 2016 election because of the way it affected her friends and her family members.

[00:04:44] And she is desperately hopeful that something will change with the 2020 election. It is right, of course, in the midst of COVID. And so she is quarantining with her family. She was supposed to go off to college, but postponed that so she could help because of a number of circumstances with her family. Her two best friends

[00:05:05] are in a COVID bubble, a quarantine bubble, together. And so she's feeling very much on the outside of that relationship. They're in the COVID bubble because they both have younger siblings who are the same age who go to school together. But yeah, she's feeling very excluded, and she has three aunts who she dearly has loved her whole life.

[00:05:28] She spent every summer with them. And one of them recently died. And so she is also still grieving. So she is just not in a good place at all. And at some point during her life, she starts noticing these very strange things start happening. She'll start seeing things that other people don't see. For example, There's a sign that appears, and no one else sees it, with her name on it.

[00:06:00] But, but then she finds that one other person, his name is James Fang, his family owns a donut shop down the street from her home is seeing some of the same things that she's seeing. And she thinks back to something that her aunts said about doors that allow you to sort of step into yourself. And so I'm at the point in the book where, clearly there's a lot of foreshadowing, and things are going to happen, and there's this countdown to so many days until Wilhelmina steps into her self, but I don't really know what the answer is going to be.

[00:06:38] I have some suspicion of the way it's going to go, but I just, wow, the book is really resonating right now, and not always in the best way, but it was published in 2024 when I imagined Cashore was thinking there would be a different outcome than the one we are living in currently. But it also... You see the characters making very empowering choices about the ways that they have chosen to react to some of the heartbreak that has happened.

[00:07:16] And so that part is enabling. I would say it is empowering, but it's yeah, it's still, there are parts of it that are feeling very heavy. Cashore is a great writer, and I love the way she writes both reality and fantasy. I love the way she develops very realistic characters who are doing their best in less than ideal circumstances.

[00:07:40] And so I love all of that. It's just, We're batch recording today. And I said in one of our early episodes, I didn't realize how many heavy books I'm reading. And I didn't initially think this would be one of them, but parts of it have been very heavy. So proceed with caution friends. But I would say on the whole, I recommend it.

[00:07:57] That is Kristen Cashore's There is a Door in this Darkness. Yeah.

[00:08:03] Ashley: I saw you had shared it on Instagram, and I was like, oh man, I didn't know she had a new one. But I'll wait till you get to the end, and you can report back on whether I should read now or wait until a few years from now, which would also be okay.

[00:08:17] Jen: right. Well, we are going to shift our discussion to Kareem Between. I will just go ahead and say another book that resonated in some wonderful and not so wonderful ways, but this one did win the National Book Award for Young People's Literature. So I think that's a fun detail. So here's the synopsis.

[00:08:32] Seventh grade begins and Kareem's already fumbled it. His best friend moved away. He messed up his tryout for the football team and because of his heritage, he was voluntold to show the new kid, a Syrian refugee with a thick and embarrassing accent, around school. Just when Kareem thinks his middle school life has imploded, the hotshot QB promises to get Kareem another tryout for the squad.

[00:08:54] There's a catch. To secure the chance, Kareem must do something he knows is wrong. Then like a surprise blitz, Kareem's mom returns to Syria to help her family, but can't make it back home. If Kareem could throw a penalty flag on the fouls of his school and home life, it would be for unnecessary roughness.

[00:09:11] Kareem is stuck between, between countries, between friends, between football, between parents. and between right and wrong. It's up to him to step up, find his confidence and navigate the beauty and hope found somewhere in the middle. All right. Well, Ashley, what were your overall impressions of Kareem Between?

[00:09:33] Ashley: Yeah, I, I loved it overall. I think that it speaks to how hard it is for young people, especially people in middle and high school, to navigate all the parts of themselves, and how what could seem simple on the outside is often really complicated for the kids going through it. I felt like the pieces of Kareem, understanding why Kareem treats Fadi, you know, it's really hot and cold.

[00:10:10] I mean, there's a lot of, he'll do something that's really kind, and then all of a sudden he completely abandons him at the moment that Fadi, the new student, really needs help. And I think all that just really feels authentic. And also, like, I think we see how nobody is helping him navigate that. Like that was really striking to me in the book.

[00:10:33] I think often we don't have those conversations with kids to help them know that it's okay to feel those complicated feelings. And that I think, yeah, I mean, I, I really liked it. I think that it's a lovely story of a kid learning how to celebrate who he is instead of feeling like he has to be sorry for it, but how hard that is to do.

[00:10:57] And I think absolutely, like all, there's all these structures in place that make it really, really hard to honor who you are in the face of a structure that really is wanting to silence and disempower you. But like Jen said, it's a hard time to read this. So. I think it resonates. I think it's a good time to read it, but it is hard to be where we are right now at this moment.

[00:11:23] And knowing how much this could, these things could happen today, tomorrow, they might've happened between the time of recording and you're listening to this episode. And that's just really hard because I think this does a great job of showcasing a kid and his family, and seeing the humanity of that, and like what that looks like. so I was talking about the school stuff which I think is relevant but then there's the larger larger political... There's what was called the muslim ban is thoroughly discussed in the book as you know if you have already read, but just dealing with that right now in 2025 and thinking about what could come it's just really hard because I think the book does such a great job of just showing real people who are lovely and kind and who are already have experienced such hardship and are just trying to like find their way for their family, I think that really holding on to that is important.

[00:12:16] So what about you Jen overall impressions?

[00:12:19] Jen: Yeah, I really loved it. I am finding some of the details are not sticking with me a whole lot. But as we're talking about it, I'm remembering all of the nuances of the book itself. I love a novel in verse and I thought, I read this one in print and I thought that Safadi makes some really innovative choices with the way it's written on the page that I kept thinking as a teacher... Because there are also all of these fun teaching moments where he's thinking through definitions of words like I'm going to share a quotation where he's defining conjunction or at where he's learned lessons from the books that he's read that he brings in.

[00:13:01] So I think it would be a really fun book to teach at the middle grade level and I found so much to love about it. So yeah, overall, my impressions are very positive. Like you said, Ashley, I think that bridging of, you know, the very, maybe more focused, zoomed in problems that he's dealing with at his school.

[00:13:25] And then those more zoomed out way that he's dealing with issues that are affecting the whole country. I think that balance was struck very well. And. man, there are moments my heart just broke for him because adults don't know how to deal with these things. So how can a kid know how to deal with them?

[00:13:44] And yet he's a child who's willing to learn from his mistakes and to make changes and to step out and advocate for the things that are important to him. So he blames himself for a lot and takes on so many burdens. I mean the part where he feels responsible for the death of his grandfather because of a lie he told is so heartbreaking because most kids can lie and then learn from it and learn that it's wrong and move on.

[00:14:14] And for him, he feels, yeah, those parts were really, really heartbreaking, but I also think it's really powerful. And I think we have a lot of kids who are dealing with things that they shouldn't have to deal with yet, but they are. And so I think it's important to have literature that helps them to feel capable of moving on in the face of those things.

[00:14:35] So yeah, I, I overall, my impressions are really strong.

[00:14:38] Ashley: Yeah, Yeah, I agree Jen. I mean, I think all those things, about his grandfather... One of the things I really appreciated in that moment was that it finally comes up with his dad and he finally talks about it. And I think that seeing, for kids to see how saying those things out loud can be really helpful and really healing, I think is important.

[00:15:02] Because so much of the book, he carries things silently and that's part of why it's so heavy.

[00:15:09] Jen: Yeah.

[00:15:11] All right. Well, we are going to shift to something a little more specific that worked for us. Ashley, what do you want to highlight?

[00:15:18] Ashley: I think I want to focus on Kareem's dad. I think that while he is obviously a secondary character, I really, really loved how Safati shows him as someone who is authentically navigating an impossibly hard circumstance and doing it the best way he knows how. And I think we really see that, like I think that moment that we just talked about where, where, Kareem says to his dad about his grandfather and he just finds a way to say to him that what he, you know, what happened was not his fault.

[00:15:57] And in a way that I felt. I think that is really hard for us as adults to do sometimes is we want to comfort, we want to soothe, we want to fix the problem, and sometimes the problem cannot be fixed. And a lot of what they're dealing with cannot be fixed. But I love the way that he continues to show up.

[00:16:18] That he continues to navigate, and that he continues to hold the boundaries but also make space for his kids amid these really hard circumstances. And like all of a sudden he's having to be both parents and he's having to do all the things. And so I just really loved that. I think that it was a beautiful depiction of how it can feel for parents, but how parents can continue to embrace and love and support and empower their own kids in these really hard times, which I think is a really important message for all of us adults out there right now.

[00:16:51] So,

[00:16:52] Jen: Yeah,

[00:16:52] Ashley: What about you, Jen? What's something that specifically worked for you?

[00:16:57] Jen: I really loved watching Kareem's relationships with all of the boys, the boys, so Fadi and Jerry and even Austin, because I think that each relationship has its own complexities. I like that. I mean, Austin clearly has some issues, but I love that the book and Kareem found a place of empathy even for him because to be the son of the coach and to feel all of that pressure and yeah, to watch his dad... I don't feel like his dad works through what happens with him in a great way at all.

[00:17:42] And so I felt a lot of empathy for Austin. in that moment. Now, the, the things that he did to Kareem and to Fadi are clearly not excusable, but you also see the power of like, I love that you highlighted Kareem's dad, because then you see the power of how he is enabling Kareem to learn from a mistake and to move on from it where Austin's dad is not.

[00:18:06] And yeah, and I think that he learned so much from Fadi, and even just the assumptions... I was really struck for some reason by the moment when he realizes that Fadi is not Muslim, that he is Christian, and that he has, is making assumptions as well, and that that's a process everyone has to work through and to understand that within communities there are differences and that we can still work through them and have good conversations about them and just talk about them.

[00:18:37] Yeah, I think what you were saying about just finding the power to say the thing and then seeing the way that builds connections. And I loved the way that Jerry fits into the whole group as well. I think, yeah, he's such a nice kid and he's so... You know, he takes Fadi's side when Kareem doesn't feel like he can.

[00:18:56] Yeah. I just feel like there are a lot of really great models here and great conversation starters amongst those different relationships. I thought that was really well done.

[00:19:06] Ashley: Yeah, for sure.

[00:19:09] Jen: All right, well, each of us now is going to share a quotation. Ashley, what do you want to share?

[00:19:15] Ashley: I wanted to highlight that scene where Kareem is praying in the library and Austin comes in and grabs the prayer rug and Austin says, What was I thinking, Kay? You're not American enough for our team. And then, the narration goes on to say, This is a country of free speech, but sometimes words spoken freely hurt.

[00:19:38] And I think there were so many things... I think that was just a great example of a scene that I thought we saw a lot of in the book, where there's so many things that can be examined there. Like you said, Jen, this is such a great, teachable book. But, you know, first of all, the fact that Austin would dare to touch the rug, I speaks to ignorance about someone's religious beliefs and how to respect those.

[00:20:03] And then the nickname K that comes up over and over again and like this, that he can't be bothered to learn how to say Kareem. And therefore nicknames him with this word that we also use as a like, way to just disengage from things, all of that was just, like, very smart and very well done. But then this idea of being American and what it means to be American, which, again, sadly, deeply resonant right now in ways that are hard for us.

[00:20:33] But I think asking that question and who has the right to be... You know, what does that even mean, right, for a middle school football team, like, how ridiculous. But yet, at the same time, it is this underlying belief system that Austin feels empowered to use as a bullying moment. And so I thought all that was really powerful.

[00:20:54] And then of course, also for him to say that about the country of free speech, because he is, he is contrasting to Syria, which... You know, we're not going to get into the details of that today. But we certainly know that the war that is being fought is exactly for these reasons and it is a very important war, and he knows that. And he knows that why his family left was to escape, you know... So it's like he understands the contrast and tries to be grateful for the opportunities that his family's having and yet, there's just so much discrimination that is entrenched in what's happening to him, and then also there's just so much emotional weight that he's having to carry, and that he doesn't know how to carry. And then that helps us as the readers feel some empathy for him when he does these, you know, things that are not kind to Fadi,

[00:21:45] it makes us have a little bit more compassion for his circumstance. So I, I just felt like that was one of the scenes I thought was really powerful. And so I like the quotes, but also kind of that whole moment I thought showed a lot that was important.

[00:21:57] Jen: Yes, I really love that too. well, and the way that football is in the center of the novel is so interesting. And I appreciate the way his dad talks to him about it and really supports his interest in football. All and. I think all of that's really fascinating because it can stand for such great things and yet for also such toxic things.

[00:22:19] And I think seeing Kareem really focused on the positive elements of it was lovely.

[00:22:23] Ashley: Yeah, I like that too. What about you, Jen? What's your quote?

[00:22:27] Jen: So I'm sharing the quote, conjunctions are connecting words, joiners bringing two words closer together as in Syrian and American, me. And the words of my Jido finally makes sense. And I thought just that moment of understanding that he doesn't have to make a choice between, that it doesn't have to be an or, that he, can be more than one thing, and that people can be more than one thing, and have more than one description, and more than one identity within themselves.

[00:22:56] I thought that was so powerful. It's definitely a point that the book was working toward, but that expression of his understanding of himself, I thought was really wonderful and just allowed him to make sense of who he wanted to be in a very complicated world. So I love that.

[00:23:16] Ashley: Yeah, that's beautiful. And yes, I thought that the movement toward that understanding of himself worked really well, and in a way that I think is approachable to a middle grade audience, but that I really thought was a beautiful celebration.

[00:23:30] Jen: All right. Well, each of us now will recommend a pairing, another book to read alongside this one. Ashley, what are you going to recommend?

[00:23:37] Ashley: I'm going to go with Hena Kh an's Amina's Voice. I have shared about that on the podcast. It's been quite a while. I love her work. And she often writes for middle grade, and I think she also does a great job of really complex stories, complex characters, but written in a way that is accessible to that age group.

[00:23:55] And the reason it came to my mind is that Amina

[00:23:59] is coming from an immigrant family. She's Pakistani American and she also is having, so she's going into middle school. She is having a similar situation that her best friend is Sujan, who is also from an immigrant family. And what is happening as they enter this age, which I think we can really relate to as what happens in middle school, is that all of a sudden Sujan has a new friend who is very American and she's like thinking about changing her name to Susan so that it's easier for people to say, and Amina is just lost.

[00:24:40] I mean, she feels like the person that she has known is shifting. Everything is shifting around her. And so we really start to see. how hard that is for her. And I think she just experiences... She's a very different character, but she experiences a lot of similar things to what is happening to Kareem of these questions of who am I? What is the right choice? How can I both blend into a society that I am integrally a part of and also acknowledge my own unique cultural identity? Can I do both those things at the same time? All those questions are coming up, which I think is really powerful. And then the other thing that made me really think of it as a pairing is that there is an attack on their local mosque in it, and we didn't talk about in Kareem Between, the whole part where they go to do the protest at the airport.

[00:25:38] I felt like it was really powerful, but it is that there are similar things happening in the sense of, with the quote unquote Muslim ban, these countries get called out simply because they are predominantly Muslim countries. And so, again, there's this just sort of ignorant stereotyping that is broad sweeping.

[00:25:57] We see that with the mosque for Amina, that she just can't fathom why someone would terrorize her place of religious celebration and I mean, it's just like, you know, it's really hard for her to grapple with, of course, understandably. And so I think seeing her work through Why do people? Have these just broad strokes of hate and there's not a simple answer because they shouldn't, but her having to find a way forward, and I think we see some similarities as far as community and trying to find a way forward and like what healing could look like, and there's not easy answers, but there is this attempt and in both books I think to try to help make sense of those things or help people know how to feel empowered when things don't make sense, I feel like.

[00:26:46] So do think this would be a great pairing and again that is Hena Khan's Amina's Voice.

[00:26:52] Jen: Yeah, I really love that book as well, and I feel like I'm going to echo so many things that you said recommend but I do think it's so important for middle graders, for all children, for adults to have these modelsthat reflect their experiences. You know, the whole windows and mirrors idea that they need things that reflect their own experiences, but also books that help them to understand other people's experiences.

[00:27:18] And I think both the ones we've talked about and the one I'm about to talk about, do that.

[00:27:24] Ashley: Yeah, what is your pairing, Jen?

[00:27:26] Jen: This is one, I believe I've talked about this one before, perhaps in a bookish check in. This is Varsha Bajaj's Count Me In, and it is also a middle grade read. It alternates between two characters, Karina, who is Indian American and Chris, who is from a white family, and they are neighbors. And Karina does not really like Chris at the beginning of the book.

[00:27:52] She considers him to be somewhat of a bully, doesn't find him to be really kind. And then her grandfather comes to live with her family, and he was a math teacher, and he ends up tutoring Chris and Karina sees a different side of him. So I really liked that nuanced consideration of people who maybe we haven't understood or haven't understood all of the nuances of their lives.

[00:28:18] And one day Karina and Chris and Karina's grandfather are outside and a person comes up and attacks them. And her grandfather is horribly injured. And they didn't know the person. They were just targeted because of how Karina and her grandfather in particular look. And like you were saying about an ominous voice, neither Karina nor Chris understands what, what has, how on earth someone would commit violence just because of someone's appearance, not understanding their story, making assumptions about who they were and what they stood for.

[00:28:58] And so. They are trying to find a way to speak back their truth and there's that thread of advocacy in this one as well that I think is really powerful, very realistic for what middle grade readers could do. So it's not something that's so far outside the scope of what is realistic that... yeah, I think that's really important as well that, you know, each, each person only has so much control, but here are the things that you can do that would make a difference.

[00:29:29] So I felt like there were a lot of connecting themes and plot lines for this one as well, which is Varsha Bajaj's Count Me In.

[00:29:38] Ashley: That sounds great, Jen. I, yeah, I think you might have shared it before, but I definitely have not read it and it brings it back to my attention. I want to add that to my TBR.

[00:29:47] Jen: Yeah, yeah, it's been a while. I'll have to look back, but all right, well, we are going to wrap up our discussion of Kareem Between with our bookish hearts. Ashley, what would you say?

[00:29:56] Ashley: Four bookish hearts for me. What about you, Jen?

[00:29:58] Jen: I'm in the same, same range for four and a half. Maybe I really, the more we talked about it, the more I loved it again.

[00:30:04] Ashley: Yes, yes. I mean, I think it's fantastic. I think it's very appropriate for the age group. I think I'm not the primary audience, but it's really well written for middle grade and I love that it's a novel in verse because I think it makes it so inviting to readers. And so, yeah. I mean, great book.

[00:30:22] Jen: All right. Well, we're going to wrap up today's episode with our unabridged favorites. Ashley, what do you want to chat about today? Yay.

[00:30:28] Ashley: I wanted to share Only Murders in the Building. II watched season 1 when it came out and loved it. And then, for some reason, we stalled out pretty early on, on season 2. And not because I didn't love it. I don't actually remember what happened. I don't know. Anyway. we are back at it and rewatching starting with beginning of season two and I just love it.

[00:30:52] I love the chemistry between the actors. I think it's a brilliant series and I love the connection between like real life events and what people say on the podcast and like all that. I mean, I just think it's really clever, really fun, really funny, and tightly woven. I think it's a really good script

[00:31:14] that is a lot of fun for the audience, so... I just wanted to, that's my favorite right now. What, what about you, Jen?

[00:31:23] Jen: I am recommending the series Pachinko, which is based on Min Jin Lee's novel. The novel is one of those I didn't read right away because it's pretty lengthy and I knew it was a multi generational saga, and I was a little, I just have to be in the right headspace for those. And then I read it and I was like, why did I wait so long?

[00:31:40] Because I could not stop reading. It felt like it was a hundred pages. And the series came out and I had that same sort of mental block. Like I knew I wanted to watch it, but I also knew it was subtitled and, Oh my word, I cannot stop watching. It centers on four generations of a Korean family.

[00:32:00] It does begin in Korea and you see the way that the Japanese presence there has affected the citizens of Korea and then eventually the family moves to Japan and face, again, great hardship, great discrimination. The Japanese government tries to eradicate parts of the Korean culture and to make them assimilate.

[00:32:27] It is so beautiful. So large part of it takes place around World War II, and then there's a modern part that's set in 1989, and just the costumes and the settings and everything are amazing. They also do this interesting thing with the subtitles. So sometimes they're speaking in Korean and sometimes in Japanese, and the color is different, and so seeing when people feel comfortable speaking in Korean versus when they choose to speak Japanese There's this interesting commentary on power in a given conversation. It is just beautiful. Sothere are two seasons out so far and I devoured both of those and I was so, so sad when it was over.

[00:33:11] So there is supposed to be a season three. I'm not sure when, and I cannot wait. It is one of the best things I've watched in a long time. So that is Pachinko.

[00:33:20] Ashley: Oh, man. You know, I love that book. So I will have to

[00:33:24] Jen: You would love it. It's on Apple TV plus. So we, we had prioritized that in our rotating streaming subscription.

[00:33:31] We turned one

[00:33:32] Ashley: I have that free right now. So maybe I will, I get like the three months for free or whatever because I finally had to update my phone. Story of technology. So I think I have a three month or something.

[00:33:43] Jen: You should take advantage of it. It's beautiful. All right, everyone. Well, thank you so much for listening. We would love to know what you think about Kareem Between.

[00:33:52] So even if you weren't able to join us for the chat, we would love to know what you think about the book. You can message us on Instagram at unabridged pod or email us at unabridged pod at gmail. com. Thank you so much for listening.

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